owlfish: (Eternal Quest)
Add MemoryShare This Entry
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 01:07pm on 24/06/2009 under ,
[livejournal.com profile] morganlf and I were going down the Thames, en route to Greenwich, yesterday when she asked me where the word "Limehouse" came from. Today I checked - it's from "Lime Oast", i.e. lime kiln, kilns for making quicklime. Quicklime is used in everything from mortar to plaster to slaking corn to pottery. Apparently, Henry III's navy blinded an invading French fleet with it.

Chalk is a kind of limestone, chalk such as the chalk of the Chalk Group, the stone underlying much of southern England, under the Channel, the Netherlands, parts of the North Sea, and down into Champagne. It's also the name of a town in Kent, Chalk, reading about which, thanks to a prompt from [livejournal.com profile] ladybird97, is what reminded me to check on Limehouse's origins today and started this whole chain of connections.

Later, yesterday, after seeing the North-West Passage exhibit at the National Maritime Museum (CanCon dealt with for the week), and coming back home to burn things, we sipped on a sparkling wine which proclaimed itself argillaceous. Today's lime-browsing reassured me that not knowing how to translate it said nothing about my French and everything about my ignorance of stratigraphy. Argillaceous rocks have clay content. Limestone can be argillaceous, as is the argillaceous chalk marl through which the Channel Tunnel was dug.

Marl is lime-rich mud. In French, it is marne, from which the river and the department in France are surely named - for that's where Champagne, of the chalk-rich soil and sparkling wines is.

Speaking of limes - one of the other kinds - we also wondered why yuzu has become such a trendy fruit in chocolate.
There are 13 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] sollersuk.livejournal.com at 12:20pm on 24/06/2009
A ridge of limestone runs up England from south west to north east, and for a long time it marked an administrative boundary in Roman Britain; I was taught that the word came from "limes", "boundary". Not totally convinced, but it would explain why it doesn't have cognates in other languages.
owlfish: (Labyrinth - Maze)
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 01:04pm on 24/06/2009
It's an appealing explanation.

Here's what the OED offers:
[OE. lím str. masc. = MDu. lîm masc. (mod.Du. lijm fem.), OHG. lîm (MHG. lîm, mod.G. leim) masc., ON. lím neut.: OTeut. *lîmo- = L. li̅mus mud, f. WAryan root *lĭ- in L. li-nĕre to smear; another grade of the root occurs in LOAM, LAIR n.2]


 
posted by (anonymous) at 12:21pm on 24/06/2009
And to add to that...

a. OF. 12th c. bescoit, 13th c. bescuit, 16th c. biscut, mod.F. biscuit, a common Romanic word (= Pr. bescueit, Cat. bescuyt, Sp. bizcocho, Pg. biscuto, It. biscotto) on L. type *biscoctum (panem), bread ‘twice baked,’ from the original mode of preparation. The regular form in Eng. from 16th to 18th c. was bisket, as still pronounced; the current biscuit is a senseless adoption of the mod.Fr. spelling, without the Fr. pronunciation.]
 
posted by (anonymous) at 12:21pm on 24/06/2009
oops. that's me! morgan!
owlfish: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 12:48pm on 24/06/2009
I figured no one else was likely to be posting that! Thanks!

I'm rather charmed to see "biskit" as the moderately-recent historical form. LOLcats: Instructive source of historical English
 
posted by [identity profile] tsutanai.livejournal.com at 12:34pm on 24/06/2009
'Cuz.

Actually, I think it's because it was a relatively unknown citrus in Europe and the West, until someone asked about it on a sushi-eating trip to Japan. So for a while they added it to everything--chocolate's happened to stick for a while. Yuzu's also big in dressings.

(I'm not so into the yuzu, actually. Now, sudachi....)

I have yet to sight the yuzu KitKat, if they ever made it. (Ah, I miss the KitKat of Japan.)
owlfish: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 12:53pm on 24/06/2009
Oooh, the yuzu KitKat does sound nice.

http://www.typetive.com/candyblog/item/japanese_kitkats_yuzu_red_bean_soup/

I don't know sudachi (other than having just looked it up). The planet's full of interesting local fruits; I suppose there's always another doomed to be the next fad.

 
posted by [identity profile] tsutanai.livejournal.com at 01:07pm on 24/06/2009
Oh, that's embarrassing. I have eaten yuzu kitkat--they only came in the mini size, but I had a bag in the fridge for a while (my apartment in Tokyo got very warm, so things tended to melt a little).

They were rather unmemorable apparently. (Thinking back on it, the yuzu flavor didn't taste very fresh. The Milk Tea KitKats were more appealing for me.)
 
posted by [identity profile] del-c.livejournal.com at 02:00pm on 24/06/2009
Kent also has a town named Cliffe which is near a, yes, chalk cliff on the estuary. It still has a cement works there, I think.

Chelsea is not, as you might think from the -ea ending, an island; it's one of those Saxon names the Normans got all wrong. If they'd left it alone, it would have been called Chalk-hithe today (or maybe elided to Chelketh, like Lambeth over the river was). I suppose it also had something to do with the trade in chalk from Kent: apparently you can see bits of chalk in the Thames there at low tide.

owlfish: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 02:32pm on 25/06/2009
How neat! It didn't occur to me to connect Chelsea with chalk.
 
posted by [identity profile] crustycurmudgeo.livejournal.com at 02:30pm on 24/06/2009
First to mind when I read your title - Julie Andrews singing "Limehouse Blues" in Star.
 
posted by [identity profile] easterbunny.livejournal.com at 03:21pm on 24/06/2009
it's from "Lime Oast", i.e. lime kiln, kilns for making quicklime.

Cool. After getting over my initial fantasia on a theme of citrus fruit cottages, I'd assumed that there was a lime storage place in the vicinity akin to a munincipal grit warehouse.
owlfish: (Nextian - Name that Fruit!)
posted by [personal profile] owlfish at 02:33pm on 25/06/2009
The docklands are really more a warehouse kind of place than idyllic fruit cottages.

October

SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
1
 
2
 
3
 
4
 
5
 
6
 
7
 
8
 
9
 
10 11
 
12
 
13
 
14
 
15
 
16
 
17
 
18
 
19
 
20
 
21
 
22
 
23
 
24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30
 
31